Interview: THE SURRENDER Director Julia Max Wrestles with Death’s Demons

The Surrender is a mother-daughter story with resurrection, lost souls, and severed body parts. Julia Max’s intimate horror film is also about familial bond and conflict in the face of loss—the terror of saying goodbye. “Really, this should have come out on Mother’s Day,” Max half-jokes. “Let’s be honest. We’re close enough.”

The well-received Shudder pic is a personal horror story from Max, who previously directed the hit horror short, Pieces of Me. She was inspired to write her feature directorial debut after experiencing the loss of her stepfather. She explores the past through Megan (Colby Minifie) and Barbara (Kate Burton), as they debate resurrecting the deceased. 

Recently, Max spoke with Daily Dead about the origin of The Surrender and the catharsis of horror.

How did your experience with a real death doula inspire you?

Julia Max: When my mom told me she wanted to hire a death doula, I had no idea what that was. It sounded like a mystical person. I didn’t know what that would entail, but I assumed that it was the reverse of a doula who helps you give birth. I was like, I’m not sure what that looks like, but it feels resurrection-y,right? And then once we started talking about paying respects to the body by cleansing it and dressing him in this new attire—all of it sounded very creepy and terrifying to me. I included some of those moments in the film, but in reality, it was actually lovely.

Really?

Julia Max: Don’t get me wrong, [it was] weird and uncomfortable at times, but it provided some closure that we don’t normally get when you rush the body out immediately. But yeah, I kept thinking this could have gone much worse, and if it did, what would that have looked like? And that is very much what the movie became.

What did you immediately think could go very wrong?

Julia Max: The very first thing that my mom said was, “We’ve got to turn down the temperature to keep the body cold so that it can stay overnight with us.” I watch a lot of horror movies. Generally, keeping a dead body in the house with you during the night seems like a bad idea. Of course, it’s going to come back to life somehow and kill us both. That sounds like a given, doesn’t it? That was the first thought that jumped.

I quickly kind of spiraled, seeing how upset my mom was during all of this and how difficult it was for her to move forward. I kept worrying like, Oh man, what if she can’t let go? What if she doesn’t let them take away his body? What should I do? I was trying hard to be supportive of her, and give her what she wanted and needed at that moment. 

The mother-daughter dynamic feels very honest in this movie. I did want to know about the unspoken relationship between a daughter and a mother. What did you want to say in between the lines?

Julia Max: Oh man. I think mothers and daughters have very complicated relationships. So much that is said and so much that goes beneath the surface that is not said. For me, my mother and I don’t always see eye to eye, but I do love her and genuinely want to try and support her as much as I can, especially during a difficult situation. But when you get those emotions going, both mother and daughter know exactly where the buttons are and how to press ’em. It can be challenging to be the best, supportive version of yourself in those moments. I wanted to capture that push and pull—that struggle of trying so hard to communicate, to be seen and heard, while not fully being able to.

Was making the movie cathartic?

Very cathartic—getting to write about this and process it with a bit of distance, like, Oh, I’m writing to other people. It allowed me to look at it all more objectively and clearly, but it also forced me to think from my mother’s perspective more. It was eye-opening, because I think it’s really difficult to see your parents as people. Writing the mother character in an authentic way forced me to do that in a way I’d never had to do before.

A part of the reason I wondered if The Surrender was cathartic—it’s also very fun.

Julia Max: I’m so glad you said that! I keep saying fun, and my husband, Ian McDonald, who is also a producer, keeps going, “Is that the right word?” And I’m like, “I think it’s fun…”

Lost souls, seances, creepy eyes, gnarly effects—that’s fun. Plus, you get to take pain and make something positive for yourself.

Julia Max: If I had written this as a straight drama, it would’ve been absolutely miserable. It would’ve been a pretty miserable and depressing time making the movie, and I don’t think people would’ve wanted to watch it. What’s fantastic about horror is it allows you to deal with these weighty subject matters, but through this fun and spooky, otherworldly lens, which just opens the doors to so much more. There’s so much more that you can show rather than tell. This is why I love horror. It’s just the best genre.

The introduction of the Death Doula—he’s this looming, shadowy figure behind a door. How did you and your cinematographer Cailin [Yatsko] initially envision his introducing this almost mystical force in the story? 

Julia Max: It’s funny, because that was not what I had initially thought of for the intro shot. In trying to solve a problem, we actually created one of my favorite shots. Neil Sandilands, who plays The Man, we only had him for a week. He was coming from Cape Town and coming right off a tour, so we had him for such a short period of time. We didn’t do night shoots either. We had a couple of split days, but most of it was filmed during the day. We realized, Oh my God, there is no way for us to show Neil appearing in the door because all of his stuff is shot during the day. What do we do? How can we have that image? Truth be told, that’s not actually him, that shadow. That is our line producer, Adam Maffei, standing there in his wardrobe weeks before Neil got into town. We did that cheat during our one split day when it was actually night.

How did you and Cailin want to make a movie that feels like death?

Julia Max: We brought on our editor, Sushila Love, early so that the three of us could talk through the storyboards and make sure that we were getting all the coverage—everything that we could possibly want. This was a low-budget movie, so we knew we weren’t going to have any pickup days. 

We talked through the camera movement and how I wanted the camera to mirror the emotional journeys of the characters. It was important that we had a distinct feeling for the first act, the second act, and the third act—that they all feel different. The color palette we’re using in the first act—and the camera setups—it’s a lot of very wide, locked-off shots. We were heavily inspired by the movie Jeanne Dielman [23 quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles].

We kept coming back to similar camera setups to show that repetitive, trapped feeling one gets when you’re taking care of someone who’s at the end of their life. It’s monotonous. It’s draining. We wanted the audience to subconsciously feel that.

How about acts two and three?

Julia Max: The world shifts. As we get into the second act, we start introducing movement and warmer colors. We start introducing a few closer shots to get into those characters more. By the third act, we are in very warm tones. There’s constant movement. We used Black Swan as an inspiration for the way we wanted the camera to constantly be moving in this chaos. 

How did you all pull off lighting the ceremony’s circle? To give our readers an idea of it: Barbara and Megan are surrounded by candles, and outside the circle, pure darkness and lost souls. 

Julia Max: Oh my gosh, that was such an incredible experience. We did that on a soundstage. They called it the “black void space,” and I was like, “Perfect—that’s what we need.” We had elaborate plans to do purely practical lighting, then we learned about the fire restrictions, and we were like, “Ah, it won’t be possible for us to just do practical candlelight. Cool, cool.” We adjusted accordingly. Of course, we tried to use as much practical lighting as we could. I’m such a fan of practical lighting.

How about your practical effects team? What did you all want to achieve together with the dead, the lost souls?

Julia Max: We had an incredible VFX team, and also had a magnificent special effects makeup team. We used Russell FX—they did the last Hellraiser movie and worked on my previous short. Sierra Spence led the charge and did outstanding work on our small budget. I still cannot believe what they were able to achieve. I think there was one moment where we had a prosthetic hand, and I was watching it on the monitor and said, “Wow, what happened to Sierra’s hand? It looks like it’s aged a bit. Is she not wearing sunblock? What’s going on?” And they were like, “That’s the prosthetic hand.” Totally got me.

Reaching the end of The Surrender, now that it’s said and done, how do you feel about mortality? 

Julia Max: Losing my stepfather and writing this has made me realize more and more how important it is to tell the people you’re closest to that you love them. I probably say it to my loved ones too much now, but I can’t help it. Frequently we don’t actually tell people that they mean so much to us. You have these memorial services and everyone talks at length about how much their loved ones meant to them. And it’s like, Did you tell them that? Did they know that? And so, I really hope that when people come away from this, they do feel the need to call their loved ones, their friends and families, to say, “Hey, I love you. You mean the world to me. I’m so grateful.”

[Editor’s Note: This interview has been edited for length and clarity.]

[Portrait Courtesy of Ian McDonald]

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Streaming on Shudder Friday, May 23rd